I teach seniors and I actively discourage all but the most seriously motivated from pursuing careers in science or engineering. With H-1Bs and the graduate student centered model of research, it’s a suckers game.

Considering all this, why would a college student put all the work and time into becoming and engineer or scientist? You could make a lot more money, and have a decent life, by becoming a lawyer, an MBA, or some other easy way.

The article is right. Why put in the effort, when in the end you don't get any sort of reward.

And the profs who come back from the US sometimes make more damage than help. They get used to the merciless ways of dealing with brilliant people, so breaking and eventually killing them. Thank you in the name of the high school teachers who still care for their pupils' future here.

His/her comment: "… rather than focusing on science, one is forced to insert BS sections on education and outreach all the way down to K-12 in grants. We have a department of education to support educational efforts. Don't co-opt science to support education. Separate the two so that those who like to educate can educate and those who like to spend time in the lab can spend time in the lab."

My take (8th year PhD in science):

I'd like to see a separation of educators and researchers at the undergraduate level… but for an entirely different reason. I think most people must not realize that most college professors have *NEVER* been taught or trained on how to effectively teach or conduct outreach programs.

And, in fact, the general focus of academia is not on teaching: RESEARCH is king. As a graduate TA I was actively encouraged to do a "half-ass" job teaching so that I could focus on my research, the "more important" aspect.

I'd also like to see graduate advisors required to have some management training. How endemic is the problem of an advisor who doesn't know how to advise? Ask any graduate student & you will see.

If we have such fabulous education department resources… (my instinct is to doubt whether they have much more funding than science, though I don't have the facts/figures in front of me)… then why aren't they being utilized to actually provide university professors training for teaching &/or to support the few professors who care about quality education over raking in the research dollars?

There is some accountability for a professor to be a good researcher (tenure, grants, etc… all depend on # of publications). There is absolutely NO accountability for a professor to be a good educator or advisor, despite the requirement for them to perform those tasks.

It is certainly harder for women in science. You have to out-geek the geeky guys to be taken seriously. You have to live and breathe the stuff.

You may have to forget science, and get into some area of industry, computers, or business. It is sad, but sometimes necessary. I have found some satisfaction in the computer industry, but I have never lost the burning desire to do real physics again.

The value of a product or service is dictated by what the market is willing to pay for it. We live in a global economy, therefore, the globe decides what labor is worth. Isolationism is very risky, economically. For one, look at the Soviet Union, which largely failed because it could not keep up with the massive switch from industrial to service-based economies like the rest of the world; its workers had no incentives to innovate because they had no competition. If you want a recent example, look at S. Korea, which, on the surface, looks like a bustling metropolis, but in reality suffers from incredibly high tariffs, massive personal debt, and homogeneous product and service offerings, and since all of their eggs are in one basket (their own), they are seriously affected when the shit hits the fan in their economy. You are so keen on bitching about foreigners taking your job, yet you just explained exactly why they are – CEO's WOULD rather hire someone that can do the same job for less money. Have you ever bought gas? Would you buy it from a more expensive self-service station, or a station that charges less and will pump it for you? We have enjoyed a wave of artificial wages and prosperity for a long, long time, but the middle-class is going down. Nobody likes it, but you can't just put on blinders and blame it on the people that are willing to work cheaper (and often, harder) than American workers. If you are so concerned, stop bitching and either work on your managerial skills, improve your current skill-set or work ethic, or pick up a mop. It's just reality, and life isn't fair.

As long as that is the view we will decline as a nation. Your vote counts!

Meanwhile government power increased. It essentially controls the manufacturing economy and has nearly destroyed it with various economic, labor, environmental, and monetary policies in addition to a wide variety of unfavorable trade agreements. And as the article points out government funding took over much of science. What the article doesn't say is that government science usually wants things that help government. So if your research says CO2 doesn't cause global warming your career is over unless you spin it the other way.

On top of this engineering and science degrees are generally much more difficult programs than business, economics, and many other degrees.

Now we are supposed to wonder why the best and brightest americans go into finance, banking, wall street, and government?